Again I pointed out that unless you have a clear plan, clear data and transparency and of course infrastructure and enforcement in place how would you plan to do that. The issue of this discussion was closing of city/state/federal parks and the purpose of that is what to force more of us indoors and yet despite it what does it accomplish and unless testing improves and in turn is accurate and of course treatment and tracking is in place to make sure all those who were in contact with said individuals are being tested and in turn treated and isolated. So by shutting this down we accomplish what, no one ever getting sick anywhere? And how is this to be achieved? By ultimately shutting everything down it ends Capitalism as we know it. It means turning over all means of production, distribution and of course sales to a government entity and makes all those Grub Hub and Whole Foods workers, the UPS/FedEx and other delivery companies as well as all food suppliers, vendors and other now managed and supervised by Government and would what, make them Government employees while this pandemic is ongoing? So we don't leave our home, we get all supplies down to our socks, soup and underwear delivered by again an agent of the Government to ensure all materials and goods are clean of disease and the workers are in turn free of it and have health care and job security that will enable them to keep all of this running and flowing. So yes shut it all down.
Again are all the tests accurate? Do they have false positives? False negatives? What then? Are they healing or asymptomatic or are they carriers? Are they in full thrown illness and to what degree and level of sickness are they - hospitalized on ventilators or just in emergent care or just on watch? Or sent home to self quarantine and isolate with all contacts tracked and contacted and tested?
And then the infamous dopey pony that I have come to know was provided in response. Again this was a former Teacher so go figure why public education is in deep shit.
Again I am seeing all kinds of field hospitals, satellite locations and are all beds full and full of what kind of patients. Are we at capacity in every hospital in every city and what then? So again if you are in a car crash you are admitted, you break a hip not admitted but then again what are the admissions that are Covid related and to what degree?
Again again and again the reality is that we get a whole lot of numbers without whole lot of information. One thing is that Cuomo is cautious and aggressive with his information and warnings but he has been as transparent as he is allowed and that the reality is that we don't know shit and in reality this is always in worst.case.scenario protocol. That is where we are 24/7 always on red alert. Where is Jack Bauer when you need him?
So if you want to allow people to walk in the park to sit and read and segregate to stay safe it then becomes a law enforcement issue so close down the parks and place full time Officers or Park personnel to arrest and/or cite anyone violating the order. Or how about those who simply refuse to follow the physical distancing requirements. Why should I who leaves my home with masks, gloves, fully covered and maintain hand cleaning rituals and other simple manners as covering my coughs or sneezes and not allowing myself to expose myself or others to a virus I may or may not be carrying but have no knowledge of it. So again that means testing every single person in America and then what? We can leave and the rest stay home? And in turn will we have papers to provide when demanded by Police to prove we can leave?Which they do in Italy.
This same person was distressed when I said that the inability to track is not true as that China always had that ability and did not use it, but we can't even spy on them to know what is the what and what is true there. Singapore did and they found that they leveled the curve with strong testing and controls. Okay so then you want us to have civil liberties but not have the ability to practice them? Again you contradict yourself from paranoia, lack of information and of course the constant drum beat of fear and angst that the media has done an excellent job maintaining.
So this is Germany's response to the virus. Meanwhile Florida who wants to wall off the state to the New York/New Jersey and Connecticut area is refusing to place restrictions on the state.. makes total sense.. shut that down! And I have said repeatedly right now Covid is a rich man's disease and when it hits developing nations one wonders how severe it will be. Shut them down! Look at the difference between New York and California and their change in structure of shutting down.
Schools are shut and businesses are shut and let's be honest there are few of either that are set up for remote working but those who can do, so then what? Shut them down forever or whenever we know when this will end whenever it will end and then how do we renew and regroup?
We really don't know what a Stay-at-Home order means but it could mean the equivalent of martial law or some variation and are you really wanting that?
In Italy they have gone from singing to protesting and yes if we tighten the noose we will also see the same.
Its coming and at the next Presidential convention (whenever if they are ever held) SHUT IT DOWN!
Teargas, beatings and bleach: the most extreme Covid-19 lockdown controls around the world
Violence and humiliation used to police coronavirus curfews around globe, often affecting the poorest and more vulnerable
Rebecca Ratcliffe in Bangkok
Wed 1 Apr 2020
As coronavirus lockdowns have been expanded globally, billions of people have found that they are now faced with unprecedented restrictions. Police across the world have been given licence to control behaviour in a way that would normally be extreme even for an authoritarian state.
On Tuesday, police in Kenya gave their “sincere condolences” after a 13-year-old boy was shot and killed on his balcony in Nairobi as police moved through the neighbourhood, enforcing a coronavirus curfew.
“They come in screaming and beating us like cows, and we are law-abiding citizens,” said Hussein Moyo, the father of Yasin, the boy who was shot.
Concerns are growing that police forces around the world are using gruelling and humiliating punishments to enforce quarantine on the poorest and most vulnerable groups, including tens of millions who live hand-to-mouth and risk starving if they do not defy lockdowns and seek work.
Over the past week, footage has emerged showing migrant workers in India crouched on the side of the road as they are sprayed with chemicals, apparently an attempt to disinfect them before they entered their home province.
The workers, who had returned from Delhi, were covered in a bleaching agent, sodium hypochlorite, which can cause damage to the skin, eyes and lungs, Indian Express reported. Elsewhere, in Punjab, people accused of breaking quarantine rules were made to do squats while chanting: “We are enemies of society. We cannot sit at home.”
Similarly humiliating tactics have been used by police in Paraguay, where people violating quarantine rules were made to do star jumps and threatened with a taser. Others were asked to repeat “I won’t leave my house again, officer” while lying face down on the floor.
Although there is a growing global consensus that efforts to protect public health in the face of the coronavirus pandemic demand temporary sacrifices of some individual freedoms, UN human rights experts have urged countries to ensure their responses by to the pandemic were “proportionate, necessary and non-discriminatory”.
It is often the least well off - who cannot afford to stop working, or who are forced to walk for days to return to their family villages from the cities they worked in before the virus emerged - who are targeted by such punishments.
In the Paraguayan capital, Asunción, Alberto Ruíz, a member of a residents’ social organisation in the deprived Tacumbú neighbourhood, told the Guardian that authorities had done very little to support families left without any income.
Almost all citizens in the country are confined to their homes. “They tell you to stay at home, to protect your family. But in poor neighbourhoods, you have to go out to earn a living: if you don’t, you die of hunger,” Ruíz said.
Videos of the punishments in Paraguay – recorded and shared by officers themselves – were praised by the country’s interior minister, Euclides Acevedo, who said: “I congratulate them. I don’t have the same creativity as those that are making the videos.”
In the Philippines, police and local officials trapped curfew violators in dog cages, while others were forced to sit in midday sun as punishment.
The country’s main Luzon island has been placed under a month-long lockdown, with more than 40 million residents asked to stay indoors. But remaining at home is a far more comfortable experience if you have the luxury of space. For those sharing cramped rooms with family members, the heat in Manila can be unbearable.
Across the country, more than 17,000 people have been arrested for coronavirus lockdown-related violations, the website Rappler reported. Human Rights Watch has pointed out that such action is most likely to be counterproductive if offenders are then placed in overcrowded detention facilities.
Activists in Kenya have warned that heavy-handed policing not only risks fuelling panic and fear but may also be heightening transmission of the virus.
In the port city of Mombasa last week, police fired teargas at ferry commuters, causing hundreds of people crowded together to cough and wipe tears from their eyes. Officers were also filmed hitting people with batons.
“If the operation was supposed to protect people from spreading the virus, the operation achieved the exact opposite,” a statement by Kenya’s police reforms working group said.
There are also fears that governments are using concerns over the pandemic to increase their own powers, bringing in sweeping legislation that could be used to quash critical voices. On Monday, Hungary’s parliament passed a new set of measures including jail terms for spreading misinformation and allowing the nationalist prime minister, Viktor Orbán, to rule by decree under a state of emergency that has no clear time limit.
In the Philippines and Thailand, states of emergency have been declared, granting governments greater powers for a temporary period. This includes the ability to crackdown on the sharing of false information – a vague term that activists fear could be misused by officials.
In a recent report, Human Rights Watch said that freedom of expression and access to information should be protected by governments. While some restrictions on rights, such as those limiting freedom of movement, could be justified, the group called for transparency and “respect for human dignity”.